Quote from Mustafur :

Time will tell but your talking as if he is the best driver on the grid without any true evidence.

Maybe he is the most promissing one at least. He's reminding me a lot of Schim too so I can't help it. ;D

P.S. In wet driver skills oftenly overcome cars disabilities.

Quote from Mustafur :

Justin Wilson beat Mark Webber in the same team in F3000, when it came to being in the same team in Jaguar in 2003, Webber was having a field day.

Previous categories doesn't mean everything, look at Kobayashi for example, sucked ass in GP2 then blasted on the scene when he got into F1.

And that means nothing either. Maldonado never beat him 1on1. Besides, I think we're talking about someone who is bound to be a champion. You really need to rewatch Brasil12. If Alonso drove as quick as Nico did there with 2nd or even 3rd class car, Alonso would have been a 2012 wdchamp.

Quote from Mustafur :

Well for starters Barrichello actually outperformed him in qualiying and in points(I would say Maldonado looked more impressive against Barrichello then Hulkenburg in his rookie year as he actually outqualified him reguarly).

One pole position doesn't change that fact.

The rest of what you said is pure speculation, and sounds like James allen talking About Hamilton when he was at ITV

thats cos it was his rookie season against a veteran... and still his peaks were better. In 2nd part of season he outqualed and outscoored roobinho. I forgot to mention how he owned maldonado in gp2, perez too and lead brazilian 2012 gp from 7th or so on the grid. And as I said wooped ass with di Shista. You might want to reconsider ur embarassing point of view The guy is a gold mine, trust me on that one.

Mustafur dude : of course he kicked Barrichello's ass, but that was to be expected. He then kicked di Shista's ass too who isn't all too bad either and he is completely outclassing this useless Gutierez rookie.

It's the only driver I remember from F3000 when I used to watching regularly a while ago and guy is just like blazzingly quick. Have a look at some onboard footage of close racing with Schumacher or Raikkonen, he just has enormous track respect. No issues like Perez whatsoever. Have a look at his Brasil pole in that I mean omg Williams craphole, completely Sennaing everyone with some incredible style of driving, seconds ahead of them. It's just such a shame Sauber is atm only quicker than Williams.... that is 8th quickest car, which means his position would be 16th, yet he is p10 like every race... I think he is far better than Ricciardo and Vergne. Vergne, he is not even in contention, guy just has issues with pressure.
And he has done 3 seasons in slower cars, he is perfectly acostumazed to Formula 1. Even if he ends up in Lotus, he will win far more than Raikkonen did with Lotus.

But yea, in the end we'll just see Kimi there in that RedBull and that is it, still fun making this little theories.

Last edited by N I K I, Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:30.

39,n i k i

CH: " Our objectives are very simple: we want the best two drivers in our cars. If they come from Toro Rosso, fantastic as they develop nicely. But we always push to have the best two drivers available."

This could mean that Hulkenberg would have a nice chance to drive RedBull as well. I don't see why not if Kimi decides to stay at Lotus. Hulkenberg is as good of a qualifier as Ricciardo, if not better and Ricciardo is rather underperforming in races atm while Hulkenberg has brought every last drop of performance out of the car in every race he has ever done frankly.

Well indeed the wheel gun man had 3 stabs at it and as he is into his 3rd stab the man on the right (who took the old wheel off) is suggesting to take the wheel off. Perhaps he was suggesting that they put the wheel off and on again and wheel it in and I've seen that before happen and wheel gets wheeled in. He even puts a hand on at which point the car is dropped down and let off (credit to quick reflexes to move his hand out of the way too).

The wheel gun man is the one who gave the green light without making sure the wheel is 100% wheeled in. [THAT IS THE POINT OF DIFFERENCE WITH OTHER PITSTOPS THAT TAKE PROLONGED TIME] He was uncooperative with teammates and responsible in that instance. Therefor, only he knows what really happened there. Did he Piquet Jr it, or did he not. Maybe we will never know that, the suspicion lies with him.

Last edited by N I K I, Mon, 8 Jul 2013 19:06.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Webber's cards don't fall his way more often than they do.

Right. That would mean he risks a touch too much then. I'll watch the replay of pit-stop incident later. I haven't yet, no time at the moment.

Jack : It's stupid of me to make such statements when, Psychology is 90% of pitstopping.

Quote from tristancliffe :

snip snip

That pit-stop was done badly on purpose. It's just that the wheel shouldn't have fallen off so quickly and directly endanger someone. I can still remember myself seeing the whole event in slow motion as it happened.

He stopped, the RR wheel gun man doesn't do anything in first shot, then he 'tries' to wheel it in as everyone has finished, then he tries again and presses the go button on his wheel gun. Next thing you see is camera man getting hit.

It was executed in such way it is obvious it's purposely done. Also it's the same wheel that went off in China.

The same wheel gun then worked faultlessly the entire race for all of the other pit-stops. Remember Force India wheel gun problems at Malaysia. Those were real wheel gun problems. Buttons pitstops went wrong so many times because the crew is simply trying to beat RedBull's pit record, is trying new technology and what-not.

In this instant, you can just clearly notice distinction between something going wrong and something faked to go wrong.

You're right the clutch start slip problems are another matter and as he few times showed he's a bad starter it then began to be used by RedBull against him, since noone would ever suspect it.

Tristan, you believe in this good luck / bad luck thing too much. There is no such thing. There are reasons for everything that happens. It's just too complicated for general public, so we sort it out with saying its good / bad luck deservant for something.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Maybe Mark has a problem and his head drops. Until people start talking about favouritism, which is the impetus he needs to keep his head up.

Psychology is 90% of race car driving.

There is that part of it too. It just makes even less sense why they purposely sabotaged him in that pit-stop.

Last edited by N I K I, Mon, 8 Jul 2013 14:50.

Quote from CSF :

He had a bad start from P4 at Silverstone, he had a wheel fall off when in 7th or wherever in China.

Ok then, no point arguing Mark's case any further. I'm no core fan of Mark whatsoever, it's just annoying that these things seem to happen to him always.

Quote from CSF :

It's not one bloody time, he's never been a good starter...

I could understand this quote : “Mark’s had some good starts, unfortunately the bad starts have been when he’s been right up the front.” as Mark just dealing badly with pressure.. but how the hell his pit crew has the same issue then? Why doesn't he have start issues or the team pit-stop issues when he's running in say P4? What is going on? Those two should not be interlinked, should they? Why does one happen when the other one doesn't and vice versa?

Quote from CSF :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f ... e&v=XrV65irfkyk#t=95s

Here's Red Bull deliberately making a mess of Webber's start. Oh wait, he's always had these issues.

C'mooon one time he blew. Do you really believe in all these years he wouldn't learn how to start a race?

So you're saying that McLaren had a perfect anti-Hamilton gearbox destruction software. Yea I can see that they did, or actually Mercedes has one now.

Quote from tristancliffe :

they could change an engine map so that it was down on power, or fluffed his starts.

Now we're getting somewhere.

wow you're colorful aren't you.

FYI just have a look how Hamilton used gearbox at McLaren and how he is using it now and the amount of problems he is having with it.

Quote :

Electronics aren't adjustable from the pits - that's why the driver has so many knobs on the steering wheel; he has to do it.

Anything can be pre-set in programming...

Quote :

There are better ways of ruining Webbers race than not fitting a wheel properly. Get the pressures wrong. Not have it in the pitlane when he arrives. Have the tyre blankets set too low.

And you're absolute certain none of those was ever used... The pit-stop screw overs are just the most obvious ones. I guess you also believe that Obama is as much of a free president in making his decisions as Kennedy was.

Quote from tristancliffe :

Those days are LONG gone. Webber is no harder or less hard on his car than Vettel. F1 cars are engineered beyond the driver having any influence over its reliability. Everything is monitored. Everything is protected by electronics. The only thing a driver can really influence is tyre wear, brake wear (within tight limits), fuel consumption (within tight limits) and clutch wear (within tight limits).

I don't think Webber has had more problems from the above than Vettel, or vice versa.

Not true. Just for example, Hamilton destroyed a number of McLaren gearboxes that are beyond counting. Sometimes a driver just misuses some part of the car. No monitoring can help heal that. However, Webber has destroyed so many KERS units it's hard to count too.

Nevertheless, what driver does not have any influence over is a pit-stop, ergo how team is helping him to suck. :lovies3d:
Besides, since they can influence anything in car thru electronics from pits, I wouldn't be surprised that Webber has sudden mechanical failure which you count as out of his control, obviously triggered to get him out of Vettel's way. Eitherway, it won't be necessary since Seb is romping away comfortably.

oh plis u take BlueFlame seriously

Or Korea 2010. He saks. Team helps him to sak. Bring on some young blood dat feeds on pressure.

Last edited by N I K I, Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:37. Reason : spellin

csf stop making me laugh. Noone ever said he's quicker or as quick as RBR's love child. He just will under no circumstance win a race under equal terms this year as long as Seb is in the race without any mechanical issue and is still gunning for the title.

lol what sort of argument is that. It only shows that Vettel is simply using more of his car.

Pit-stop fails, that's different.

Quote from DevilDare :

So can we stop saying now that Mercedes tire test helped them solve their problems?

Nop. They had a poor setup for this race. You might have heard Lewis saying: "We made some changes last night", before the Saturday qualifying "it worked well. " basically gave him that extra pace for pole. "Let's hope it works well in the race too." It didnt.

lol you fakers. Webber is not going to win this season a single race if Vettel manages to finish that race without a car problem and hasn't won a title yet!

I don't know guys. Maybe. I was just thinking how his going great again as he went under the radar again. I'm still interested to see what the FIA says about the whole thing.

Nah. You just don't understand how far the politics can go in F1. It's just personal opinion and FIA will have investigation about it anyway.

Webber looked like the only one who could have actually overtook Vettel in the race as he had more traction than Lotuses. It's his first run on Vettel after the Malaysia too and it's traditionally a track where he always goes very quickly round.

All of the RBR pit-stops ever since China (which was incidentally after Malaysia) were spot on and then suddenly in this critical moment the wheel gun suddenly stopped working! Of course after this everything went smoothly again and will go until it accidentally doesn't in important times for Mark again. Webber was also given the green light to go out of the pit-box to go ruin his race.

It might only be a conspiracy theory and if true RBR is playing a very dangerous game with innocent peoples lives. I'd have a big investigation about this if I was Nurburgring, Germany or FIA.I find it was conscious and intentional endangerment of other people's lives.